12 Responses to “YEAH, HOWARD, MANKIND IS DOOMED...”
Tommy Zombie | May 15, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Perfect.
Tao of Pi | May 15, 2008 at 11:55 pm
For many of us the REH and HPL racism discussion is a sensitive issue. We love and idolize both these authors and hate to think of them as anything but perfect. I think this was done in bad taste.
I’m having a little trouble figuring out who exactly this pokes fun of. Is it’s Howards questionable views on other races (highley debatable), or HPL views. I’m leaning towards HPL due to the cosmicism reference but I’m not 100% sure, anyone want to chime in?
xolotl | May 16, 2008 at 12:55 am
I agree that it’s on the edge; it’s always a pretty difficult line to gauge. I’ve turned down a few submissions that I felt, at the time, were a bit too over whatever line that is.
This one I felt was okay… IMO it’s mostly just a generalized observation of some of HPL’s recurring themes, and viewing those recurring ideas from the perspective of a narrator who doesn’t exactly venerate HPL’s works. The humor, to me, derives from the dispassionate tone of the narrator, who finds HPL’s racism as tiresome as his dire portents of chaos and dread.
It actually didn’t enter my mind to think of it as a direct “attack,” if you will, on HPL himself, though I do see how it could easily be interpreted that way. Excising the reference to racism could certainly leave the macro with much of its humor intact: “Yeah, Howard, mankind is doomed and insignificant and our attempts to avert our downfall can end only in madness - we get it already.”
Could be that posting this was a misstep on my part - I don’t know. I do agree that it’s a pretty hairy issue. Perhaps I should re-caption it and just link to the original?
Tao of Pi | May 16, 2008 at 1:20 am
Wow I feel dumb, I completely forgot HPL’s first name is Howard, ( I usually think of him as ‘HP Lovecraft’). For some reason I thought the narrator was HPL, talking about Robert E Howard (both have been labeled racist).
I understand it A LOT better now, and I hope this clarifies my previous post a bit. But for the most part my position still stands. HPL doesn’t deserve to be crucified for his views, he was a product of his enviroment. According to some sources he eventually repented his racist positions.
Tommy Zombie | May 16, 2008 at 12:59 pm
I’m astounded that anyone is even slightly compelled to complain about a joke at the expense of a racist. There are plenty of reasons to call Lovecraft stories hackneyed, poorly written, and racist. I like his stories because they’re fun, sometimes they’re really special, and a lot of the ideas are really cool. But that’s it.
That picture doesn’t “crucify HPL for his views”. If anything it mocks readers who can’t accept that his stories are often repetitive and often excuses to manifest his racism.
Tough luck if your favorite author was racist.
S.E. | May 17, 2008 at 3:47 pm
I think it’s funny, and I’m not sure I understand Tao of Pi’s objections.
HPL wasn’t perfect. He was racist; so much so that he was reportedly horrified to find out that an ancestor had been Welsh. Because, you know, the Welsh are “lesser beings,” as opposed to proper Anglos (or something, it’s never made sense to me). Jerkish behavior? Sure. Acceptable target for poking fun? Of course.
He was sexist, too. But I suppose we can’t make jokes about HPL being afraid of girls, either. It might hurt someone’s feelings. /sarcasm
You know, it’s always hard to separate the artist from the art… Ezra Pound and his fascism is the most common example, or Orff, maybe?
In one way it’s unfortunate that HPL didn’t just have racist, misogynist views, but also expressed them pretty baldly in a good portion of his works. Many times people defend an author by saying that such biases are just part of the era they live. I don’t think that’s an excuse- Mark Twain is a good example, who transcended both the predominant racism of the time as well as religious pigheadedness. There are many more examples, and again, unfortunately HP Loverboy was not one of them.
In a way, it’s part of an indescribable appeal, though. I’ve been a pretty hardcore HPL fan since I was about nine years old, and I’ve realized more and more over the years how deeply flawed a person he was, as well as how incomplete a writer. You can never quite put your finger on exactly what it was that made his concepts and characters and such so memorable, but you have to wonder (as Stevie King has) whether someone with such a comprehensive set of fears (negros, vaginas, open spaces, disease, etc.) isn’t the perfect gateway for a sort of general nameless frisson of cosmic ass-kicking dread.
So let’s hear it for Howie, who has succeeded in giving us a little shiver and a lot of entertainment despite his shortcomings.
Lex | May 18, 2008 at 5:13 am
Regardless or race, color, or creed,we are all equal in the elder god’s eyes.
This same macro got me booted from an HPL Livejournal community.
Anyway, if it caused any offense, sorry about that. It wasn’t intentional; I’d just been re-reading “The Shadow Over Innsmouth” and “Herbert West - Reanimator” (featuring a REALLY shocking description of a black boxer), and felt like poking some fun at the guy.
weirdharold2112 | May 28, 2008 at 8:13 am
I thought this one was pretty hilarious myself. One might guess HPL wouldn’t have had quite the same views if he was born/raised a century later, or even if he did, he would have adjusted his writing a bit.
Some of his views are bothersome, but he was a product of a different era, and it doesn’t change the fact that he wrote some terrific fiction.
pdqinky | Jun 7, 2008 at 7:48 pm
I’m with harold. Every era leaves a stamp on it’s writers and I doubt there’s any work of fiction that escapes being flavored with the mores of the time. As for the cap, well, the same sort of thing has gone through my mind reading HPL & REH (and ERB, and… so on). Migod, have you tried reading ALL of ERB’s Martian books? Zounds!
Perfect.
For many of us the REH and HPL racism discussion is a sensitive issue. We love and idolize both these authors and hate to think of them as anything but perfect. I think this was done in bad taste.
I’m having a little trouble figuring out who exactly this pokes fun of. Is it’s Howards questionable views on other races (highley debatable), or HPL views. I’m leaning towards HPL due to the cosmicism reference but I’m not 100% sure, anyone want to chime in?
I agree that it’s on the edge; it’s always a pretty difficult line to gauge. I’ve turned down a few submissions that I felt, at the time, were a bit too over whatever line that is.
This one I felt was okay… IMO it’s mostly just a generalized observation of some of HPL’s recurring themes, and viewing those recurring ideas from the perspective of a narrator who doesn’t exactly venerate HPL’s works. The humor, to me, derives from the dispassionate tone of the narrator, who finds HPL’s racism as tiresome as his dire portents of chaos and dread.
It actually didn’t enter my mind to think of it as a direct “attack,” if you will, on HPL himself, though I do see how it could easily be interpreted that way. Excising the reference to racism could certainly leave the macro with much of its humor intact: “Yeah, Howard, mankind is doomed and insignificant and our attempts to avert our downfall can end only in madness - we get it already.”
Could be that posting this was a misstep on my part - I don’t know. I do agree that it’s a pretty hairy issue. Perhaps I should re-caption it and just link to the original?
Wow I feel dumb, I completely forgot HPL’s first name is Howard, ( I usually think of him as ‘HP Lovecraft’). For some reason I thought the narrator was HPL, talking about Robert E Howard (both have been labeled racist).
I understand it A LOT better now, and I hope this clarifies my previous post a bit. But for the most part my position still stands. HPL doesn’t deserve to be crucified for his views, he was a product of his enviroment. According to some sources he eventually repented his racist positions.
I’m astounded that anyone is even slightly compelled to complain about a joke at the expense of a racist. There are plenty of reasons to call Lovecraft stories hackneyed, poorly written, and racist. I like his stories because they’re fun, sometimes they’re really special, and a lot of the ideas are really cool. But that’s it.
That picture doesn’t “crucify HPL for his views”. If anything it mocks readers who can’t accept that his stories are often repetitive and often excuses to manifest his racism.
Tough luck if your favorite author was racist.
I think it’s funny, and I’m not sure I understand Tao of Pi’s objections.
HPL wasn’t perfect. He was racist; so much so that he was reportedly horrified to find out that an ancestor had been Welsh. Because, you know, the Welsh are “lesser beings,” as opposed to proper Anglos (or something, it’s never made sense to me). Jerkish behavior? Sure. Acceptable target for poking fun? Of course.
He was sexist, too. But I suppose we can’t make jokes about HPL being afraid of girls, either. It might hurt someone’s feelings. /sarcasm
You know, it’s always hard to separate the artist from the art… Ezra Pound and his fascism is the most common example, or Orff, maybe?
In one way it’s unfortunate that HPL didn’t just have racist, misogynist views, but also expressed them pretty baldly in a good portion of his works. Many times people defend an author by saying that such biases are just part of the era they live. I don’t think that’s an excuse- Mark Twain is a good example, who transcended both the predominant racism of the time as well as religious pigheadedness. There are many more examples, and again, unfortunately HP Loverboy was not one of them.
In a way, it’s part of an indescribable appeal, though. I’ve been a pretty hardcore HPL fan since I was about nine years old, and I’ve realized more and more over the years how deeply flawed a person he was, as well as how incomplete a writer. You can never quite put your finger on exactly what it was that made his concepts and characters and such so memorable, but you have to wonder (as Stevie King has) whether someone with such a comprehensive set of fears (negros, vaginas, open spaces, disease, etc.) isn’t the perfect gateway for a sort of general nameless frisson of cosmic ass-kicking dread.
So let’s hear it for Howie, who has succeeded in giving us a little shiver and a lot of entertainment despite his shortcomings.
Regardless or race, color, or creed,we are all equal in the elder god’s eyes.
Equally worthless, that is…
Absolutely brilliant.
IMO: Howie needed a hug.
This same macro got me booted from an HPL Livejournal community.
Anyway, if it caused any offense, sorry about that. It wasn’t intentional; I’d just been re-reading “The Shadow Over Innsmouth” and “Herbert West - Reanimator” (featuring a REALLY shocking description of a black boxer), and felt like poking some fun at the guy.
I thought this one was pretty hilarious myself. One might guess HPL wouldn’t have had quite the same views if he was born/raised a century later, or even if he did, he would have adjusted his writing a bit.
Some of his views are bothersome, but he was a product of a different era, and it doesn’t change the fact that he wrote some terrific fiction.
I’m with harold. Every era leaves a stamp on it’s writers and I doubt there’s any work of fiction that escapes being flavored with the mores of the time. As for the cap, well, the same sort of thing has gone through my mind reading HPL & REH (and ERB, and… so on). Migod, have you tried reading ALL of ERB’s Martian books? Zounds!